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cybermike
07-24-2008, 07:15 PM
So whats the opinion on sites with 2 prechecked cross sales below the confirmation button, above the confirmation button, 1 prechecked cross sale while disclosing as much info as possible, etc

I'm upset with them as they will turn surfers into non buyers.. I'm pissed off as an affiliate pushing revshare programs not getting my taste from them.. I guess its hypocritical but if you are burning that surfer forever I want my share..

I'm still pushing a revshare site that has one prechecked crosssale to their own program but they dont hide the information below the confirm button.. I'm not very happy about it but I do understand shooting exclusive content is expensive..

2 prechecked crosssales is just asking for trouble and is being greedy.. you can offer 150-200-250 pps for 1 day but that doesnt make up for it.. especially when no one makes money on those days..

If you want to fuck them when offering PPS.. bleh whatever.. but revshare links.. come on.. if you offer it find away to give back to the affiliate.. increase revshare %, find a way to credit the affiliate.. something


Thats my rant.. I am a hypocrite that I will push these sites on big promo days.. but karma bites me in the ass and I lose money these days buying expensive paid spots and never making enough sales to justify it..

lazzlo
07-24-2008, 07:56 PM
that does sound shitty. but paysites are'nt in it to make "us" money. i was told!

the Shemp
07-24-2008, 08:06 PM
So whats the opinion on sites with 2 prechecked cross sales below the confirmation button, above the confirmation button, 1 prechecked cross sale while disclosing as much info as possible, etc

I'm upset with them as they will turn surfers into non buyers.. I'm pissed off as an affiliate pushing revshare programs not getting my taste from them.. I guess its hypocritical but if you are burning that surfer forever I want my share..

I'm still pushing a revshare site that has one prechecked crosssale to their own program but they dont hide the information below the confirm button.. I'm not very happy about it but I do understand shooting exclusive content is expensive..

2 prechecked crosssales is just asking for trouble and is being greedy.. you can offer 150-200-250 pps for 1 day but that doesnt make up for it.. especially when no one makes money on those days..

If you want to fuck them when offering PPS.. bleh whatever.. but revshare links.. come on.. if you offer it find away to give back to the affiliate.. increase revshare %, find a way to credit the affiliate.. something


Thats my rant.. I am a hypocrite that I will push these sites on big promo days.. but karma bites me in the ass and I lose money these days buying expensive paid spots and never making enough sales to justify it..

i dont like the dishonesty, the small text, hidden way down the page etc...
if it was something like "would you like a great deal on another site, check here"....then i wouldnt have a problem with it..

Mr. Goat
07-24-2008, 09:32 PM
Unchecked cross sales are cool as semp mentioned with the info there and bold ... prechecked is just trouble... the only one who benifits is the site owner.. a lot of times it just turns into a CB or a unhappy surfer whos gonna think 10 times over before pulling out his CC again.

lazzlo
07-24-2008, 10:01 PM
whats the diff of a unchecked and prechecked?

Panky
07-24-2008, 10:25 PM
whats the diff of a unchecked and prechecked?

Unchecked means that the surfer has the option to manually click/check the option before they complete their order/sign-up.

Prechecked means that the extra items are automatically checked for them and if the surfer doesn't want them, they need to manually uncheck them before completing the order/sign-up.

lazzlo
07-25-2008, 07:26 AM
Unchecked means that the surfer has the option to manually click/check the option before they complete their order/sign-up.

Prechecked means that the extra items are automatically checked for them and if the surfer doesn't want them, they need to manually uncheck them before completing the order/sign-up.
thats shady, thanks!

chromakey
07-25-2008, 07:06 PM
Prechecked is very shady but there are a lot of sponsors doing it now.

bluemoney
07-25-2008, 09:32 PM
Prechecked is very shady but there are a lot of sponsors doing it now.
Yep! I have to admit that I'm "Dancing with the Devil" myself.

That said i would much rather up sales be pushed in the members area rather than the sign up.

Mr. Goat
07-25-2008, 11:03 PM
Prechecked is very shady but there are a lot of sponsors doing it now.

When the sales are hard to come by it sure is an easy way to double your sign ups with little effort :)

»Rob Content«™
07-26-2008, 01:25 AM
This is from that thread on GFY, and it's very uncool what they are doing.

When you sign up unless you read the entire join page it appears you are signing up for free, only if you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page you'll see that there is a charge for it. It's also charged in Euro, which means if you missed it in 2 days the persons CC would be hit for about 162USD.

Not cool

Mike Semen
07-26-2008, 07:15 AM
thats shady, thanks!

yup fucking shady.

Murloc
07-26-2008, 07:54 AM
Gonna go through my top sponsors and check. Haven't even thought about prechecked cross sales. As I mostly do revshare, that could fuck up my income abit.

ManilaMan
07-26-2008, 10:54 AM
I am surprised that the cc companies allow this.

i guess they ran it through their battery of attorneys and the attorneys told them there is no way the customer can do a chargeback on this since it was on the signup page

cc companies are shady to begin with, if you ask me

kaz
07-26-2008, 10:58 AM
This is from that thread on GFY, and it's very uncool what they are doing.

When you sign up unless you read the entire join page it appears you are signing up for free, only if you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page you'll see that there is a charge for it. It's also charged in Euro, which means if you missed it in 2 days the persons CC would be hit for about 162USD.

Not cool

Holy shit, 162 dollars. Damn that's a lot of money, especially for something that was supposed to be free. A few dollars you might be able to get away with, but never that much. Geez. :no:

Mr. Goat
07-26-2008, 10:59 AM
I am surprised that the cc companies allow this.

i guess they ran it through their battery of attorneys and the attorneys told them there is no way the customer can do a chargeback on this since it was on the signup page

cc companies are shady to begin with, if you ask me

No way to do a CB? lol Its amazing how many CB's the CC companies give out even when your sites are 100% legit and all info is there.

tranza
07-26-2008, 01:32 PM
It seems that most sponsors are doing pre-checked cross sales this days.

It's getting harder and harder to find good sponsors that don't use that.

:2cents:

ManilaMan
07-26-2008, 02:08 PM
does pimproll do that?

Mr. Goat
07-26-2008, 04:44 PM
does pimproll do that?

I just checked Porn.com

So Yes......

Its bad enough when there is one but then to have 2?? :ohnoes:

ManilaMan
07-26-2008, 05:05 PM
ya but doesnt it tell you what the price is before you click PAY

no wonder these sites can afford 30 bucks for a 1 dollar trial

1 dollar isnt one dollar

looking at what you just pasted i would not assume they are charging extra money more than the one dollar.......I would assume you are saying ok let me get into those sites too for the same 1 dollar price ............

where on that page do they tell you ............this is going to cost you more money if you do this........and this is the amount of money it will cost you?

are u just basically writing them a blank check?

what if you do a chargeback after that will the chargeback go through?
i guess they must have that all pre set so they know guys cant fight it or something

i dont like that practice at all

Mr. Goat
07-26-2008, 05:15 PM
ya but doesnt it tell you what the price is before you click PAY

no wonder these sites can afford 30 bucks for a 1 dollar trial

1 dollar isnt one dollar

looking at what you just pasted i would not assume they are charging extra money more than the one dollar.......I would assume you are saying ok let me get into those sites too for the same 1 dollar price ............

where on that page do they tell you ............this is going to cost you more money if you do this........and this is the amount of money it will cost you?

are u just basically writing them a blank check?

what if you do a chargeback after that will the chargeback go through?
i guess they must have that all pre set so they know guys cant fight it or something

i dont like that practice at all


On the PAGE BEFORE that screen cap there is this...

Trial and Monthly subscriptions will recur until cancelled, Trial subscriptions recur at $39.95.

Notice the word subscriptions so that would indicated all 3 sites that you are joining Porn and the 2 cross sales so the surfer will be billed about $120 in a few days if he does not go to each of the 3 sites and cancels if he did not uncheck the checks before joining.

ManilaMan
07-26-2008, 05:21 PM
ya that is totally fucked up, there is no way for the surfer to know that, i cant believe that if the surfer charges it back,,,,,,,,that the cc company can get away with not running the chargeback

wonder what kind of fireworks ensue if they try a chargeback
the more i see this explained the more it pisses me off..............

think about it this way, if adult surfers regularly sign up for sites, and start seeing this happen on their credit cards, how many more sites do you think they will sign up for after this happens to them once or twice?

Mr. Goat
07-26-2008, 05:42 PM
think about it this way, if adult surfers regularly sign up for sites, and start seeing this happen on their credit cards, how many more sites do you think they will sign up for after this happens to them once or twice?

thats the main issue... there is no longevitiy for the business with such practices the only one who benifits is the site owners and not only that its just short term benifit at a time where sales are slow so no one cares and everyone is doing this recently to make up for lost sales.

ManilaMan
07-26-2008, 05:44 PM
exactly. this cannot continue........how long has this been going on?

Mr. Goat
07-26-2008, 05:47 PM
exactly. this cannot continue........how long has this been going on?

Cross sales have always been around but they have been getting pretty bad latley with being more then 1 pre checked and everyone seems to be doing it. They use to be pretty big back in the day surfers way back use to get fucked hard.

Footman
07-26-2008, 06:07 PM
I just checked Porn.com

So Yes......

Its bad enough when there is one but then to have 2?? :ohnoes:

Those asterisks are the tip off that something is foul in Denmark. When I see an asterisk I look to the bottom of the page for the meaning. On anything that's above board and not trying to screw you they will always explain the asterisks at the bottom of the same page. Obviously in your example and I'm sure in most sponsors pages it doesn't. When I don't see an explanation on the bottom of the same page I just don't click continue. I guess I've become jaded and mistrusting over time.

The question becomes "When will the tide turn to more respectable forms of sales?"

the Shemp
07-26-2008, 06:09 PM
many program owners are paying huge pps amounts on a trial signup...this money has to come from somewhere, so they are creative in maximizing ways to get revenue and they consistently push and push harder...
there is an unofficial competition to see who can pay the most off a signup, just like the other unnofficial competition to see who can give away the most free content..

some program owners will justify this by saying the affiliates are demanding higher and higher payouts....which for the most part is crap....i know i just want honest payouts and honest stats...

Toby
07-26-2008, 06:21 PM
Cross sales have always been around but they have been getting pretty bad latleyI think it's a bit of a herd mentality. Uh oh, those other guys are doing it, so we'd better do it too. Sheep with blinders on. :rolleyes:


...back in the day surfers way back use to get fucked hard.One of the major factors that made cc companies classify adult as high risk, and why we as an industry pay much much higher fees than mainstream.

There's always a price to pay for this kind of stuff, eventually, and more than a few innocents will inevitably be casualties in the carnage.

Buncha
07-26-2008, 07:38 PM
On the PPS programs, I can understand this. I don't like it, but I'm not an idiot. I know you can't pay $50 to affiliates on a $29.95 monthly membership.

But it's another matter entirely on Revshare. The whole idea of Revshare is that you're entering into a partnership with the sponsor. No customer is going to recur if you fuck them over the first month. And if you're going to screw the customer, then I want my cut.

Murloc
07-26-2008, 07:42 PM
Too much shady stuff going on, makes me sad :(

Panky
07-26-2008, 07:50 PM
On the PPS programs, I can understand this. I don't like it, but I'm not an idiot. I know you can't pay $50 to affiliates on a $29.95 monthly membership.

But it's another matter entirely on Revshare. The whole idea of Revshare is that you're entering into a partnership with the sponsor. No customer is going to recur if you fuck them over the first month. And if you're going to screw the customer, then I want my cut.

It's greed. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter if the sponsor offers Rev, PPS, or both. There are other ways a sponsor can earn their money back once that surfer becomes a member. There's no excuse whatsoever to screw with a surfer by offering pre-checked cross sales.

»Rob Content«™
07-27-2008, 02:44 AM
many program owners are paying huge pps amounts on a trial signup...this money has to come from somewhere, so they are creative in maximizing ways to get revenue and they consistently push and push harder...
there is an unofficial competition to see who can pay the most off a signup, just like the other unnofficial competition to see who can give away the most free content..

some program owners will justify this by saying the affiliates are demanding higher and higher payouts....which for the most part is crap....i know i just want honest payouts and honest stats...

We as webmasters are part of the problem, no one is happy with 25-30 per join, which is realistic on a join page with no other forms of income on it.

We want the money

they need to make it...

the Shemp
07-27-2008, 02:53 AM
We as webmasters are part of the problem, no one is happy with 25-30 per join, which is realistic on a join page with no other forms of income on it.

We want the money

they need to make it...


ive almost always used revshare
...

however, i will say that the sponsors have raised the bar for payouts to attract more affiliates and to brand themselves as good guys and as "players"...the tricks that are played to support higher than average payouts arent necessary....but we are in a free market system and capitalism is running wild ...

ManilaMan
07-27-2008, 02:54 AM
who says no one is happy with 25 to 30 per join................who cares if its even 25 per join that is irrlevant , the important thing is conversion ratio not money per join, Give me 25 per join anytime and a high conversion ratio over 40 per join and a shitty ratio............its total money in the bank that counts not money per join

so i dont buy that its the webmasters fault for wanting more money per join.......thats a cop out

the Shemp
07-27-2008, 03:16 AM
ive had a sponsor look me srtaight in the eye and tell me that their program didnt shave, even though i was extremely suspicious...turns out they didnt shave...they call it "trimming" instead...
http://www.shemp.com/shavepage.jpg

ManilaMan
07-27-2008, 08:19 AM
i have a sneaking feeling one of my main sponsors shaves me on weekends I get like 2 to three sales a day on the weekdays, come the weekends practically nothing, makes no sense other than the possibility of shaving since i have high weekly total by the weekend and they dont want me to get up too high

lazzlo
07-27-2008, 08:28 AM
I just checked Porn.com

So Yes......

Its bad enough when there is one but then to have 2?? :ohnoes:

:(

Toby
07-27-2008, 08:40 AM
...no one is happy with 25-30 per join...
That's where the reasoning wrong. Many of us are very happy with 50% to 60% revshare or $25 to $30 PPS.

In fact, when I see a promo for a large PPS I run the other way.

Many simply fail to see that you can really make more money long term promoting a revshare program that retains. For example, my all time average income per member for Medium Pimpin is $63.42.

ManilaMan
07-27-2008, 08:57 AM
what kind of site is medium pimpin

Toby
07-27-2008, 09:13 AM
what kind of site is medium pimpin
Pornstars

www.clubanita.com
www.clubcharlie.com
www.clubjuliabond.com
www.clubyurizan.com
www.crissymoran.net
www.jessecapelli.com
www.lisaadaniels.com
www.lonniewaters.com
www.nataliacruze.com
www.shaylaren.com
www.terrisummers.com
www.victoriaredd.com

www.amateursgonebad.com
www.digidolls.com
www.glamourmodelsgonebad.com
www.mytrannylover.com

Mr. Blue
07-27-2008, 01:29 PM
Sponsors are trying to attract the hobbyist webmaster by offering them a big lollipop. You don't need insane contests, webmaster "tools" that used to be the webmasters responsibility (hosting, design, etc), PPS that makes no mathematical sense other than screwing the surfer, screwing the webmaster, or a combination of both.

My best sponsors have always avoided those unnecessary expenses and I'm contemplating dropping one long time sponsor because they're starting to make some changes I don't like and the ratio is going up right along with it.

However, it's senseless to complain about pre-checked cross sales. Every day as webmasters we turn a blind eye to it. Affiliates won’t drop sponsors that make them coin, traffic sources won't pull the plug, boards won’t drop advertisers that are using these practices, and basically its complaining for the sake of complaining at this point.

Reading Dirty F’s rants on GFY on this topic were hilarious and he was absolutely right, but once you stop chuckling you realize nothing will change. So you do your best to try and find a business model that will survive these diseases on the industry.

ManilaMan
07-27-2008, 01:34 PM
Its kind of like did you ever notice you never see a major newspaper write a critical article about lets say, a large supermarket chain in their town.....Lets say Albertsons or Safeway.........shortchanging people . for example. Why? it would make great headlines if it was true, and stories like these , happen all the time, the do not reprogram the scanners for sale items and they scan the larger price. Why wont the newspaper write a big article on this? errr those supermarkets pay their salary. they run full page ads all the time in the newspapers. Case closed

Spicy
07-27-2008, 03:47 PM
Whats the deal with the cross sales lately?? I see people discuss this everywhere... is that something new or what?? Then why such a drama on the net??

dizmo
07-28-2008, 05:01 AM
i couldn't care less how much a sponsor pays per signup. they can pay $1000 for all i care, what is important is the signup ratio on my traffic.

Fonz
07-28-2008, 09:51 AM
I'm using revshare as much as possible, I've had surfers recur for over 24 months. PPS is too shady these days if you ask me.

goldbucks
07-28-2008, 10:47 AM
i couldn't care less how much a sponsor pays per signup. they can pay $1000 for all i care, what is important is the signup ratio on my traffic.

That and actual sales

dizmo
07-29-2008, 09:28 AM
i saw on "that other board" someone saying "well how do u think sponsor can afford those $100 promos" without xsales and what not.
well, its a promo... the purpose of it is not to make money(from the promo) but to get your name out and more affiliates(then! make more money). it should go from the advertisement budget, and if u dont have one, well dont offer a promo.


to me, xsales are just ridiculous, why would anyone check it in the first place without even getting a link to the site in question.
</rant>

cybermike
07-29-2008, 10:10 AM
i saw on "that other board" someone saying "well how do u think sponsor can afford those $100 promos" without xsales and what not.
well, its a promo... the purpose of it is not to make money(from the promo) but to get your name out and more affiliates(then! make more money). it should go from the advertisement budget, and if u dont have one, well dont offer a promo.


to me, xsales are just ridiculous, why would anyone check it in the first place without even getting a link to the site in question.
</rant>

Check the site in your sig :)

tranza
07-29-2008, 11:45 AM
i couldn't care less how much a sponsor pays per signup. they can pay $1000 for all i care, what is important is the signup ratio on my traffic.

Lol, the ratio means absolutely nothing.

It's money in the pocket that matters.

ManilaMan
07-29-2008, 02:55 PM
Lol, the ratio means absolutely nothing.

It's money in the pocket that matters.

good ratio = lots of money in the pocket

how can the ratio mean nothing?

MP
07-29-2008, 03:13 PM
what kind of site is medium pimpin

Wow we must suck at marketing :(

MP
07-29-2008, 03:14 PM
For the record we have zero x sales, zero cross sales, none nada, on Rev Share, and none on PPS, no plans on adding them either.

lazzlo
07-29-2008, 05:18 PM
i really wouldnt mind pre checks if they are above the submit, pps only, and if they do take the pre check, there should be a bonus to that pps

Toby
07-29-2008, 07:16 PM
I'd rather see ALL of the pre-checks vanish and bring the PPS payouts back in line, close to the price of a one month membership.

Panky
07-29-2008, 07:19 PM
I'd rather see ALL of the pre-checks vanish and bring the PPS payouts back in line, close to the price of a one month membership.

Yes. Would definitely be a nice change.

lazzlo
07-29-2008, 07:42 PM
that too, but it will never happen.

dizmo
07-30-2008, 08:29 AM
Check the site in your sig :)

doh! haha, i forgot i ran that one still. thanks for pointing it out!

dizmo
07-30-2008, 08:35 AM
Lol, the ratio means absolutely nothing.

It's money in the pocket that matters.

Im confused... like manilaman said, how can ratio not mean anything?

u wont have much money in the pocket if your signup ratio sucks balls.
what matters is what u are getting paid per surfer u send.

Money made divided by number of surfers sent. Thats whats important. Now if its $100 PPS or $10 PPS means nothing.

So, please elaborate on your statement that it means nothing...

edit:
by the way, love your post on gfy:

"I'm at 1:14k with Juggcash. And that's more than 1 single sale."

Murloc
07-30-2008, 08:38 AM
For the record we have zero x sales, zero cross sales, none nada, on Rev Share, and none on PPS, no plans on adding them either.

Thumbs up for that one :cookiem:

Murloc
07-31-2008, 06:03 PM
I went through my top sponsors, some of them which I've been working closely with for 8 years, all had crosssells on revshare. Ok, all was above the button, but I still feel it's abit shady. :ronaldo

Toby
07-31-2008, 06:10 PM
I went through my top sponsors, some of them which I've been working closely with for 8 years, all had crosssells on revshare. Ok, all was above the button, but I still feel it's abit shady. :ronaldo

And I'll bet not a single one sent you any notification that they were doing so. I'll even wager that they didn't make any changes to their affiliate agreements to address those cross sales.

I haven't taken the time to look myself, but I'd be interested in what a trained legal eye had to say about some of these revshare agreements and the sponsors obligations regarding cross sales.

Murloc
07-31-2008, 06:28 PM
And I'll bet not a single one sent you any notification that they were doing so. I'll even wager that they didn't make any changes to their affiliate agreements to address those cross sales.

Yep, that's correct. Didn't even now about that crossell on revshare links was going on before this thread. Also figured that this was a pratice of more shady sponsors, not the ones I've been using. Well, sadly I was mistaken :(

dizmo
08-01-2008, 04:11 AM
the time to open your own paysite(s) is now.