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Mr. Blue
11-18-2006, 12:44 AM
Has everyone been keeping up with the steady stream of Zango threads on GFY? I have been doing a quick read over of the threads because it's kind of important to know who's ripping you off. Kudos to Will76 for not stopping on this topic.

The funny thing about the sponsors that are getting caught are the ones that I had dropped awhile ago because I had questions about their ethics in other areas. I follow a general rule, if someone has faulty ethics in one area, they'll have faulty ethics in other areas as well and you should stay clear of them.

Do you think traffic sources, like TGPs, LLs, etc, should put sponsors like this on a blacklist? Say for example AFF. Should traffic sources add the linking code to AFF in their blacklisted html or should you let the submitter decide whether or not they want to keep pushing traffic to them?

Toby
11-18-2006, 01:13 AM
I have a short list of blacklisted sponsors. If they've manage to make my "list" I'm not going to allow their program to be promoted on my TGP's.

the Shemp
11-18-2006, 02:37 AM
Has everyone been keeping up with the steady stream of Zango threads on GFY? I have been doing a quick read over of the threads because it's kind of important to know who's ripping you off. Kudos to Will76 for not stopping on this topic.

The funny thing about the sponsors that are getting caught are the ones that I had dropped awhile ago because I had questions about their ethics in other areas. I follow a general rule, if someone has faulty ethics in one area, they'll have faulty ethics in other areas as well and you should stay clear of them.

Do you think traffic sources, like TGPs, LLs, etc, should put sponsors like this on a blacklist? Say for example AFF. Should traffic sources add the linking code to AFF in their blacklisted html or should you let the submitter decide whether or not they want to keep pushing traffic to them?

ive read them and its a real dilemma...

dizmo
11-19-2006, 03:58 PM
Its a sad story and it wont go away.

69pornlinks
11-19-2006, 07:06 PM
certain people makes a shit load with certain sponors so doubt they'll be on anyone BL...i like how people put pimpcash on BL because of his comments but when it's something like this they stay quiet..

Mr. Blue
11-19-2006, 07:53 PM
...i like how people put pimpcash on BL because of his comments but when it's something like this they stay quiet..

It's one of the more peculiar aspects of the biz. Take this thread for example, a few people will post and comment on this topic and I do appreciate them doing so because I think it needs to be commented on, but this thread will never take on as much life as if I outed a small time webmaster for doing a form of cheating (double bonus points if he was a euro webmaster with an Engrish problem), lol.

It's unfortunate but it seems to be the way the cookie crumbles.

XxXotic
11-19-2006, 08:23 PM
When the cats away the mice will play, and NO ONE wants to step up and police this industry. So until someone does, shit like this will continue to happen. Sure, we'll all bitch about it for a while, but at the end of the day there's still nothing done.


This is the ONLY industry shit like this happens with little or no repurcussion

pam
11-19-2006, 09:01 PM
If a sponsor was paying you more than others and you were making $30k a week from them, and you didn't notice any real change in stats due to Zango -- would YOU drop them?

Money talks. Many people have no principles until it affects their bottom line.

I'm sure many of the people who talk bad about Zango are themselves using it to make money.

Mr. Blue
11-19-2006, 09:26 PM
If a sponsor was paying you more than others and you were making $30k a week from them, and you didn't notice any real change in stats due to Zango -- would YOU drop them?

Actually I would...we've had this discussion a few times in this forum on whether you would drop a sponsor for shaving/cheating even if you were making good money with them. Some people would, some people wouldn't, but for me it's a matter of trust and who I want to do business with.

It's a thing about rewarding good behavior and punishing bad behavior. As an industry if we embrace faulty ethics then don't we only have ourselves to blame when companies screw us over?

I guess I have a Pollyanna view on ethics and I've always done well with all my businesses. Maybe being a creep is the way to go though, especially in porn, you can go far and have no fear of real retribution.

pam
11-19-2006, 09:37 PM
I'd drop them, too, but most people won't because money is the bottom line for them.

rockhard8
11-24-2006, 07:39 AM
Has everyone been keeping up with the steady stream of Zango threads on GFY? I have been doing a quick read over of the threads because it's kind of important to know who's ripping you off. Kudos to Will76 for not stopping on this topic.

The funny thing about the sponsors that are getting caught are the ones that I had dropped awhile ago because I had questions about their ethics in other areas. I follow a general rule, if someone has faulty ethics in one area, they'll have faulty ethics in other areas as well and you should stay clear of them.

Do you think traffic sources, like TGPs, LLs, etc, should put sponsors like this on a blacklist? Say for example AFF. Should traffic sources add the linking code to AFF in their blacklisted html or should you let the submitter decide whether or not they want to keep pushing traffic to them?
what's wrong with aff? I've never had a problem with em. But back on topic the only time I've seen tgp's use a sponsor off limits list it's because they are promoting the sponsor themselves and don't want submitters competing with their promos.

Besides I think it's better for the overall competitive market for each of us in it to weed out the scammers from the legit, I mean take care of your own and look out for your network if you want to, but for every tgp and LL to start saying stay away from this guy and that one makes it harder for industry natural selection to do its own thing. In other words if I know a sponsor is shady and joe newb that I don't know from a hole in the wall doesn't know then chance favors my ratios over theirs and my longevity in the market if he uses the scammer and I use the legit.

Plus I would think the bigger sites leave themselves open to defamation suits if they start not accepting sites for stealing/shaving, what else could they do, blacklist a sponsor without giving a reason? They would have to have solid evidence of the crime and seldom people do.

Surfn
11-24-2006, 07:50 AM
what's wrong with aff? I've never had a problem with em. But back on topic the only time I've seen tgp's use a sponsor off limits list it's because they are promoting the sponsor themselves and don't want submitters competing with their promos.

Besides I think it's better for the overall competitive market for each of us in it to weed out the scammers from the legit, I mean take care of your own and look out for your network if you want to, but for every tgp and LL to start saying stay away from this guy and that one makes it harder for industry natural selection to do its own thing. In other words if I know a sponsor is shady and joe newb that I don't know from a hole in the wall doesn't know then chance favors my ratios over theirs and my longevity in the market if he uses the scammer and I use the legit.

Plus I would think the bigger sites leave themselves open to defamation suits if they start not accepting sites for stealing/shaving, what else could they do, blacklist a sponsor without giving a reason? They would have to have solid evidence of the crime and seldom people do.
My sites my rules. I banned AFF over a year ago and will not list any submit that uses them.

Mr. Blue
11-24-2006, 08:21 AM
what's wrong with aff? I've never had a problem with em. But back on topic the only time I've seen tgp's use a sponsor off limits list it's because they are promoting the sponsor themselves and don't want submitters competing with their promos.

Besides I think it's better for the overall competitive market for each of us in it to weed out the scammers from the legit, I mean take care of your own and look out for your network if you want to, but for every tgp and LL to start saying stay away from this guy and that one makes it harder for industry natural selection to do its own thing. In other words if I know a sponsor is shady and joe newb that I don't know from a hole in the wall doesn't know then chance favors my ratios over theirs and my longevity in the market if he uses the scammer and I use the legit.

Plus I would think the bigger sites leave themselves open to defamation suits if they start not accepting sites for stealing/shaving, what else could they do, blacklist a sponsor without giving a reason? They would have to have solid evidence of the crime and seldom people do.

What's wrong with AFF, hmm...you might want to stop off at GFY and give a read.

As for the topic you raise, generally I don't want to be anyone's Papa and I'll let them usually promote any sponsor (unless there's some questionable content etc). I'll probably continue using that policy, but sometimes I wonder if the porn industry should consider working together on some topics to combat certain behavior.

Link Lists tend to be a little more uniform in their decisions than TGPs...some LL's have banned certain sponsors and many follow suit, etc. Is it right? Is it wrong? I'm middle of the road on it...I don't like to police submitters, but sometimes sponsors do egregious enough activities where some action should be taken.

Mr. Goat
11-24-2006, 12:28 PM
For every 1 person who ban's a sponsor 2 others start to use them.

Its a shame but people in this business only worry about money NOW IN HAND and not the long run and what things like ZANGO can to do this biz, so they would rather just keep making money with AFF as they are now then stepping up and supporting the right cause.

rockhard8
11-24-2006, 11:35 PM
What's wrong with AFF, hmm...you might want to stop off at GFY and give a read.


ah ok, I don't normally frequent that board, but I spent a few hours today over there getting caught up on the situation. I'm gonna pull all traffic now and send it somewhere else, see how it does.

FatalAttraction
11-25-2006, 12:25 AM
It's one of the more peculiar aspects of the biz. Take this thread for example, a few people will post and comment on this topic and I do appreciate them doing so because I think it needs to be commented on, but this thread will never take on as much life as if I outed a small time webmaster for doing a form of cheating (double bonus points if he was a euro webmaster with an Engrish problem), lol.

It's unfortunate but it seems to be the way the cookie crumbles.

Unfortunetly there are some people/programs that will constantly get their ass kissed in this industry....no matter what they do or say! It's just the way it is

the Shemp
11-25-2006, 01:00 AM
no doubt there is an "oldboys" network that is pretty tight...

Surfn
11-25-2006, 03:06 AM
no doubt there is an "oldboys" network that is pretty tight...
what about "old girls" like Emmy from SG ;)

pam
11-25-2006, 09:21 AM
For every 1 person who ban's a sponsor 2 others start to use them.

Its a shame but people in this business only worry about money NOW IN HAND and not the long run and what things like ZANGO can to do this biz, so they would rather just keep making money with AFF as they are now then stepping up and supporting the right cause.

I have someone on another board who insists on using a sponsor that openly admits to using Zango, and no one can make him understand how it works. He figures since he has small sites, he's ok. He says since he doesn't do SEO he's safe.

So, he makes his "large" check of $300 a month and is happy, when in actuality he's probably making $500 a month.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about how Zango works. Too many people think if they don't do SEO they're safe.

KRM
11-25-2006, 08:59 PM
If a program is using zango i won't use them. Now we just need a solid way to actually stop them.

revert13
11-26-2006, 12:27 PM
Here is a couple links to some more information regarding zango - http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=18049

http://zangoblacklist.com/[/QUOTE]

I was using them and making good money with zango in the begining. But once I started reading the threads on GFY and hearing webmasters threatening not to plug or even report my sites. I took them down. Money is not everything...

rockhard8
11-26-2006, 01:27 PM
Here is a couple links to some more information regarding zango - http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=18049

http://zangoblacklist.com/

I was using them and making good money with zango in the begining. But once I started reading the threads on GFY and hearing webmasters threatening not to plug or even report my sites. I took them down. Money is not everything...[/QUOTE]
thanks for that, that site has a removal tool for Zango and my uncle wants it off his machine pronto, says it's pop up hell