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rockhard8
07-09-2006, 07:50 PM
how's the idea of listing tgp's that have open submits but never list? I know someone came in here with a list not too long ago and asked whether certain sites they submit to list the submitter ever and apparently some tgp's are keepin their submit forms open even though they don't list for the recip traffic.

But, time is money, and some of those sites want manual submissions only so you have to see their affil banners and then on top of that have no intention of listing you, I think it could be helpful to keep a running list of these sites for people to browse and possibly add to when they know of or discover sites wasting our time and chasing the affiliate dollar.

rockhard8
07-09-2006, 09:03 PM
oops I forgot there might be people here that do that and wouldn't like to be outted

Panky
07-09-2006, 09:24 PM
One problem... A site might never list a person or two, but list someone else on a regular basis. A site that may appear to be dead for me, could very well be alive and kicking for some else.

rockhard8
07-09-2006, 09:28 PM
One problem... A site might never list a person or two, but list someone else on a regular basis. A site that may appear to be dead for me, could very well be alive and kicking for some else.
I don't know, I think some sites are in autosubmit db's just for the recip traffic and referral money. If they list some people it's because they have pa's there, but there are definitely a load of sites that list pretty much no one even though they have open submit forms.

Mr. Blue
07-09-2006, 09:39 PM
Not that easy to say as the places with open submits sometimes have a backlog of 6-8 months (yes, I've been approved from some tgps 8 months later).

It's really easy to get backlogged...I only have one open submit tgp left and had it removed from certain autosubmit programs and its still getting 700 submits a day. If I only accept 200 new a day, lol, you can see how a backup can occur.

rockhard8
07-09-2006, 10:46 PM
fine then, the idea is dead in the water, but if these sites get that backlogged why not just pull the submit form unless there really is that much money and traffic in referrals and recips, respectively

Mr. Blue
07-09-2006, 11:23 PM
fine then, the idea is dead in the water, but if these sites get that backlogged why not just pull the submit form unless there really is that much money and traffic in referrals and recips, respectively

They can't really pull their submit forms as once you're removed from a good submitters database, poof, you might be gone forever. I know I've deleted TGPs that close down their submit form for awhile.

It's a hard juggling act to follow. I mean I could just delete the extra galleries I get each day, but that doesn't seem entirely fair to me. So, I'd rather have a backlog and give the person a chance to get listed then just deleting the extras and not giving it a second thought.

Also recip traffic isn't all that much for smaller tgps. Smaller tgps get grouped together, at tops the traffic their getting back is between 100-200 hits per day and that's hardly much compensation for keeping an open submit tgp running.

the Shemp
07-10-2006, 01:54 AM
i used to get over 4000 submits a day on my public submit form and on ocaasion, when the partner submits were low, i would use a few of them...

im sure 99% of these submits are from auto submitters, so i dont think there is any work involved in the submissons...

Mr. Blue
07-10-2006, 02:20 AM
im sure 99% of these submits are from auto submitters, so i dont think there is any work involved in the submissons...

yep, that's another point. The open submit tgp is really difficult to maintain with all the autosubmits rolling around.

ChrisExtreme
07-11-2006, 03:48 AM
oops I forgot there might be people here that do that and wouldn't like to be outtedPlenty of tgp's have open submit forms and don't list the galleries submitted to them, so I think it's a good idea. Who cares if you out someone here, then they can post and say whether it's true or not.

rockhard8
07-11-2006, 04:26 AM
Plenty of tgp's have open submit forms and don't list the galleries submitted to them, so I think it's a good idea. Who cares if you out someone here, then they can post and say whether it's true or not.
exactly, at least by putting them out there someone might come and explain the situation, yeah they're backlogged and list me once a year, something just so we know whether it may be worth it at some point. Even a hi that's my site, can't keep it out of the autosubmitters and I just don't feel like pulling the form, something

the Shemp
07-11-2006, 04:35 AM
why do people submit to sites that never list them?
.....autosubmitters.....and they dont care....

Mr. Blue
07-11-2006, 06:26 AM
The open submit tgp is a dinosaur and will probably be non-existent in a year from now. Any tgp with decent traffic isn't going to put up with submitters spamming their form with non-stop autosubmits.

So the tgp owner decides...screw it, I'm going to go partner only...let me put up a partner application...woohoo, this will solve my problem. Too bad they have auto-crap partner requesters now. So you get 100 partner requests in a day...reviewing a partner account takes a bit longer than reviewing a gallery. So autosubs ruin that avenue.

The tgp owner decides to fuck it all, only let people he knows to submit to him...then people whine non-stop for accounts. Wahh, I want an account, maybe you hate russians (yes, I've gotten that email :321: )

Honestly, check your server stats, if a tgp is sending you no traffic then these three things might be happening:

1. Backlog, wait for it.
2. The TGP is defunct...delete them.
3. Your galleries suck

Honestly I'd be more concerned by the tgps that are picking your pocket for submit passes and not listing you, than open submit tgps that might give you traffic for the cost of nothing.

Fluid
07-11-2006, 10:44 AM
why do people submit to sites that never list them?
.....autosubmitters.....and they dont care....

that's what server stats are for. If you can't find a site in those stats for a few months, stop submitting to them but still watch and see if they pick up a gallery from the backlog later.

I know I don't check for listings from all those small sites I autosubmit to using dream submitter.

deleuze
07-11-2006, 11:38 AM
The open submit tgp is a dinosaur and will probably be non-existent in a year from now. Any tgp with decent traffic isn't going to put up with submitters spamming their form with non-stop autosubmits.



You think?

Panky
07-11-2006, 12:54 PM
Sure, go ahead and create the list. I personally think it's a waste of time. The list will never be accurate. There's too many factors involved. Some site owners never bother to read boards, much less owe anyone an explanation, especially on free submits. Many submitters mass submit and really just don't care. It takes time and effort to maintain a database. Those who care may be interested in the list, but they also follow their own server stats and adjust their databases accordingly.

The paid submit accounts, paid passes, or whatever you want to call them are a different story. They should explain why they only list 1 out 3 of a submitters galleries, why more than 1 pass is sold to an individual, and things of that nature... Even still, creating a list of paid passes, will never be accurate either. There's just too many factors involved. That, and it's between the submitter and site owner as to why the galleries aren't getting listed as frequently.

The list is going to be different for each and every person. Yes, there are sites who accepts submits without any intention of listing any gallery they receive. So? If people can't maintain their own databases, then so be it. The branding and/or recip traffic these sites receive back isn't going to amount to anything significant, so why create a list and "out" these sites? What purpose would it really serve?

So someone makes a post and starts exposing these free open submit sites. Why should the sites care? So they get removed from a few databases. The site could care less. So their name gets dragged out on a board. Some of these people we probably have no clue who they are. It's not like they are going to lose any revenue because they got added to a list of, "Don't submit to these sites because they have no intention of listing you."

As wrong as we perceive this practice to be, making a list isn't going to make any difference.

ChrisExtreme
07-11-2006, 02:11 PM
It will make a difference to me so just do it and those who find the list useless can just ignore it. Some people here put too much time into discouraging ideas.

Capt. 'rold
07-11-2006, 02:51 PM
the backlog thing is definitely one helluvan issue..i'm getting listings now from stuff I've submitted in 2005 and making sales from them too.

Mr. Blue
07-11-2006, 03:17 PM
It will make a difference to me so just do it and those who find the list useless can just ignore it. Some people here put too much time into discouraging ideas.

Or some people here like to discourage stupid ideas. It's that whole glass is half empty / glass is half full scenerio.

rockhard8
07-11-2006, 03:39 PM
Or some people here like to discourage stupid ideas. It's that whole glass is half empty / glass is half full scenerio.
jeez the guy is calling me stupid now

well in hindsight I wouldn't want to see the thread a sticky, it being a constant negative in what is typically a positive atmosphere. Someone could always start it and bumped whenever you wanted to add to it or ask the forum about a particular site.

But like I mentioned, although I use an autosubmitter, there are certain sites that require manual submission, so I submit to them manually, over and over again, why, because the form is there and open and the sites have brand recognition with me. Do site owners reply to "I've been submitting to you for months and never get listed any particular reason why?" emails, probably not, they're backlogged remember?

When the other thread about the sites that don't list came up, someone came out and told them no I got listed there months later, so now that guy knows he may get listed there too if he keeps at it, if seven people all came out and said no they've never listed me either, well then we might be onto something and can save others plus ourselves time. Whether it's a sticky or not it would still be a useful thread.

Mr. Blue
07-11-2006, 04:22 PM
Okay, I'm sorry for calling it a stupid idea. The problem as I see it is...webmasters need to do their own homework. They need to bring something to the table other than a monthly membership to Chameleon.

When I started no one would even give me a hint on what tgps to submit to...a webmasters database is his bread and butter...a good database will take you months to get down and even longer to perfect. There's absolutely no sense in webmasters giving away information that took them months of hardwork to develop. People need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and do a little of the nitty gritty work through trial and error.

Panky
07-11-2006, 05:19 PM
Server stats are what is going to tell you what sites you should keep in your database and what sites you should inactivate. No list on a board is going to help you with that. For every one person who replies and says, "I never get listed there", there will be another sitting behind the scenes thinking, "It's a good site for me." They may post it, they may not.

The majority of people who are going to add to and/or comment on the list are people who have concerns about a certain site. If a site was a particular gold mine to a submitter, they aren't going to be too quick to advertise it.

Think of it this way... When you have a sponsor who is really performing well for you, maybe your top earner, do you really want to post all over the boards bragging how good that sponsor is so every Joe Blow can join, or do you keep it to yourself and milk the site for all it's worth?

People need to make the decision for themselves of whether or not to keep submitting to a site. Only they know how their database performs for them. A list on the board won't help them with this descision. The best descisions to make regarding keeping a site active in a database or not, will come from your own stats and some trial and error.

ChrisExtreme
07-11-2006, 05:45 PM
Okay, I'm sorry for calling it a stupid idea. The problem as I see it is...webmasters need to do their own homework. They need to bring something to the table other than a monthly membership to Chameleon.

When I started no one would even give me a hint on what tgps to submit to...a webmasters database is his bread and butter...a good database will take you months to get down and even longer to perfect. There's absolutely no sense in webmasters giving away information that took them months of hardwork to develop. People need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and do a little of the nitty gritty work through trial and error.Just cause no one helped you doesn't mean you shouldn't help others. It was never mentioned here that a list of where you get listed should be posted, it's not like you're being asked to give away what tgps are sending you traffic and how much. So what is the big deal about starting a thread where board members can say, "I've never listed at xxx.com and xxx1.com so you might want to skip those or e-mail the webmaster." Like I said before I think its a good idea, then again I've always helped people with advise on where to submit and where not too. Not that anyone should absolutely accept my experiences as thier own, but a little advice never hurts.

Mr. Blue
07-11-2006, 06:06 PM
Just cause no one helped you doesn't mean you shouldn't help others. It was never mentioned here that a list of where you get listed should be posted, it's not like you're being asked to give away what tgps are sending you traffic and how much. So what is the big deal about starting a thread where board members can say, "I've never listed at xxx.com and xxx1.com so you might want to skip those or e-mail the webmaster." Like I said before I think its a good idea, then again I've always helped people with advise on where to submit and where not too. Not that anyone should absolutely accept my experiences as thier own, but a little advice never hurts.

Advice is fine and I've taken the time to help more than my share of noobies, but there's a point when people have to do on their own, they have to do some work to earn a living in this business, it can't all be handed to anyone with an $8 buck domain and some hosting.

Submitters get:


Free content
Free hosting
Free gallery building tools
They use autosubmitters
They use auto partner requester


Let's now supply them with a database so hobbyists can ruin the industry even further and take out submitters that actually gave a damn to do some work.

People did help me when I got started, but they taught me how to do on my own...they didn't have to wipe my ass like some sort of baby. This is a business, other submitters are my competition, and I enjoy good competition. What I don't enjoy is someone that doesn't want to do their own work, that doesn't want to take the time to build their own database through trial and error.

Now you want to help noobies. Here's how you do it. They ask what tgps to submit to and you say: Use the database you have, keep submitting, get partner accounts, keep track of your server stats, and delete the tgps that don't list you.

That's how you teach a person how to create a database. If they don't want to do the work, they become another casualty in porn industry and that's too bad. If they do want to do the work, they're someone that I'd respect and do business with.

the Shemp
07-11-2006, 06:06 PM
i was thinking back to when i used to have my public submit form open...as i mentioned i was getting over 4,000 submits there a day....after the paid spots, platinum, goldplus and free partner accounts, i would sometimes have 10 spots open of the 300 i was listing each day....so i would take 10 from the public submits to fill out the page...so that means 3990 galleries never saw my page...and those webmasters could truthfully say that i was never listing them...

ChrisExtreme
07-11-2006, 06:22 PM
Advice is fine and I've taken the time to help more than my share of noobies, but there's a point when people have to do on their own, they have to do some work to earn a living in this business, it can't all be handed to anyone with an $8 buck domain and some hosting.

Submitters get:


Free content
Free hosting
Free gallery building tools
They use autosubmitters
They use auto partner requester


Let's now supply them with a database so hobbyists can ruin the industry even further and take out submitters that actually gave a damn to do some work.

People did help me when I got started, but they taught me how to do on my own...they didn't have to wipe my ass like some sort of baby. This is a business, other submitters are my competition, and I enjoy good competition. What I don't enjoy is someone that doesn't want to do their own work, that doesn't want to take the time to build their own database through trial and error.

Now you want to help noobies. Here's how you do it. They ask what tgps to submit to and you say: Use the database you have, keep submitting, get partner accounts, keep track of your server stats, and delete the tgps that don't list you.

That's how you teach a person how to create a database. If they don't want to do the work, they become another casualty in porn industry and that's too bad. If they do want to do the work, they're someone that I'd respect and do business with.Who even mentioned anything about "noobies," this is about the submitters who frequent this board and most are not noobies. Again all this thread was intended for is a list of tgps where some people have submitted too with no results. It's not an exact science and it should be understood that what works for some doesn't work for others. I don't think that is asking too much. And the if the new submitters (who everyone is afraid will steal their business) really wanted to know where you DO submit too, all they have to do is find one of your galleries and change the .html at the end of the url and your submit list is now known (few people actually use a more difficult numbering system to crack).

As far as this list goes:
Free content
Free hosting
Free gallery building tools
They use autosubmitters
They use auto partner requester

Welcome to gallery submitting in the year 2006.

Surfn
07-11-2006, 07:01 PM
i was thinking back to when i used to have my public submit form open...as i mentioned i was getting over 4,000 submits there a day....after the paid spots, platinum, goldplus and free partner accounts, i would sometimes have 10 spots open of the 300 i was listing each day....so i would take 10 from the public submits to fill out the page...so that means 3990 galleries never saw my page...and those webmasters could truthfully say that i was never listing them...
A busy TGP like yours that has been around for a while I'm sure has people coming down on the "good" and "bad" sides of your site. It's just comes with the territory. If someone is genuinely interested in being a long term full time webmaster it behooves them to check out all the TGP's and other traffic pumps they can find.

There are so many factors that go into making sales from a galley then you need to learn which niche a TGP's surfers convert best. etc. etc.

Being a part time/hobbyist using a free version of some autosubmitter will yield far different results than an experienced webmaster submitting by hand. Any combination of afore mentioned skills will return different results.

Bottom line you need to try and then you need to pay attention to what works and what doesn't.

My :2cents:

Mr. Blue
07-11-2006, 07:06 PM
As far as this list goes:
Free content
Free hosting
Free gallery building tools
They use autosubmitters
They use auto partner requester

Welcome to gallery submitting in the year 2006.

No Open Submit TGPs
Partner Account Only TGPs
Paid Submits

See what gallery submitting in the year 2006 will reap...it's almost there already.

ChrisExtreme
07-11-2006, 07:47 PM
No Open Submit TGPs
Partner Account Only TGPs
Paid Submits

See what gallery submitting in the year 2006 will reap...it's almost there already.All the more reason sharing info could be helpful.

Brav
07-12-2006, 12:28 AM
This may be obvious, but I had a webmaster e-mail me asking me why he was never listed and he sent along a few samples. I didnt remember ever seeing them or reviewing them so I took a look. He had over 100 galleries sitting in the unconfirmed queue. What happened was he used a spam filter of some kind that sends an e-mail to the sender asking them to enter a code for the e-mails to be sent to them. I never receieved such e-mails due to my spamkiller, anyways I guess the moral to the story is to add the domain to you filter to allow these e-mails or you may never be able to confirm a submission and therfore never get listed.

rockhard8
07-13-2006, 02:01 AM
so can we greenlight this little bitty or what? should we vote?

the Shemp
07-13-2006, 02:19 AM
so can we greenlight this little bitty or what? should we vote?


if you want to post it go ahead, i wont make it a sticky...i think it will be near the top of the board for a while anyway... ;)

facialfreak
07-13-2006, 04:15 AM
I have to say that Mr.Blue had the most valid point in this entire thread :


Advice is fine and I've taken the time to help more than my share of noobies, but there's a point when people have to do on their own, they have to do some work to earn a living in this business, it can't all be handed to anyone with an $8 buck domain and some hosting.

Submitters get:

1. Free content
2. Free hosting
3. Free gallery building tools
4. They use autosubmitters
5. They use auto partner requester


Let's now supply them with a database so hobbyists can ruin the industry even further and take out submitters that actually gave a damn to do some work.

I am in 100% agreement here. You never hear the people who work hard in this industry crying about not getting listed somewhere, or wanting "secret lists" ... It's about fuggn time that the people who are not willing to roll up their sleeves and work for their income, be left in the dust of those who are not afraid to do a bit of legwork (analyzing server stats etc - if you do not have good server side stats, insist your host install AWSTATS for you - it is open source, AND FREE!)

As harsh as this is going to sound, it is about time that the 90% majority of lazy-assed webmasters, be kicked da fuck off the gravy train!!

There are no free rides!!

DISCLAIMER: My post is not pointing fingers at any one individual, but rather a collective group of negative or assinine comments made in this thread, and a reflection of my feelings on the issues discussed within. No animals were harmed in the creation of this post, and I just called GEICO and saved 15% on my car insurance.